Curse

Mangione · Oct 21, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

Actually, they're already banning RR day botters. I don't know if they'll actually ban real players, but you'd better hope to God (if you RR'd) that you didn't have a 3rd party program running. They're already perma'ing those guys.

Still... they are banning for botting.
Permaban is the usual procedure for them.
I have yet to see or hear about anyone non-botter being banned just for RR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

Yes, I think that RR is cheating, and this is why I didn't participate in it.

Gaile's quote posted by Draikin seems to point in that direction: no action will be taken, RRers can sleep sound and safe.

Reading Black Metal's post I also reflected on another thing: If banning some people that abused RR (for example those that claim to having farmed RR for 10 hours nonstop) will reflect bad on GW2 or push the banned ones to not buy GW2, then it is really a plus. People with the mindset of exploiters kicked out of GW1, not buying GW2... I don't see how this could be better.

Draikin · Oct 21, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The fact is, she implied that they would be banning for this. Judging by ANet's actions in the past, it's not hard to believe that they'd do something as ridiculous as this.

People will soon forget about that statement after HB has been deleted and no bans (other than accounts flagged as bots) have followed. For them to ban players it would first of all require other people reporting them, and secondly even if that happens Support is just going to dismiss everything saying that the evidence is not concrete.

Arkantos · Oct 21, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

People will soon forget about that statement after HB has been deleted and no bans (other than accounts flagged as bots) have followed. For them to ban players it would first of all require other people reporting them, and secondly even if that happens Support is just going to dismiss everything saying that the evidence is not concrete.

Yeah, people will forget about it if no bans are handed out. However, if they do start banning people for whatever reason, there's going to be a shit storm.

Quote:

Reading Black Metal's post I also reflected on another thing: If banning some people that abused RR (for example those that claim to having farmed RR for 10 hours nonstop) will reflect bad on GW2 or push the banned ones to not buy GW2, then it is really a plus. People with the mindset of exploiters kicked out of GW1, not buying GW2... I don't see how this could be better.

From a player who wants to have a perfectly clean community (like that's ever going to happen) point of view, sure, it's a plus I suppose. From a business point of view, not so much. You're also assuming that the thousands of players who participate in this event are players who want to exploit things that actually matter. Another thing you're assuming is that all the players who participate know it's an exploit. When something like this is celebrated by the community, many players participating are not aware that they are actually exploiting something in this way.

Regardless of whether or not they truly want to exploit things, satisfied customers = money, and money = business, which is definitely something ANet wants.

Cracko · Oct 21, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

you know what the problem is with anet?

everytime new stuff comes out that i read on guru/wiki, noone or very few people in my guild know about it, so i have to tell them every single time, or i could tell them where to look for the new stuff in guild wars, guess where i tell them to go? an UNOFFICIAL GW FORUM.

anet, improve your communication, for the sake of your games.

gone · Oct 21, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Never did I say it was not an exploit/cheat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

As Black Metal mentioned below, going from zero to ban is an absolutely ridiculous way to manage your customers. Please, argue against that.

If you believe it was/is an exploit/cheat, we're not going from zero to ban are we? we're going from the EULA to player.

/edit
and I hope you (all) know. it's not the guy who did this 4 or 5 times and left that I consider the exploiter (even though s/he is). it's the people who did this HUNDREDS of times over many months. if you try to tell me they didn't know it wasn't a cheat or an exploit, i've got a bridge to sell you in San Fran, and they opossum'd you all.

/edit2
even if we can lay blame fully on anet for not taking immediate action, does that still give people the right to hide behind numbers and not be punished?

zelgadissan · Oct 21, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

This is slightly off-topic but Cracko's post reminds me of it -

I can't believe that there still hasn't been a single announcement on the login screen or anything about TA and HB being removed. So many people in-game still have no idea this is happening. I had to tell people in GToB about it just last night...how long ago was it that Linsey said they were being removed? Two months probably?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cracko

anet, improve your communication, for the sake of your games.

Chico · Oct 21, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

Still... they are banning for botting.
Permaban is the usual procedure for them.
I have yet to see or hear about anyone non-botter being banned just for RR.

/waves

Hello. I'm not a botter and I'm permabanned. Still with screenshots sent to support I'm permabanned. Waiting for 2 days without response to my permabanned account.

I think the fault lies in the fact they ignore parameters that can be used to identify human players. Fought real fights? Chatted in towns waiting for matches? Replied to pms? Sent PMs? (analyze pm contents and chat contents) Complained about ERR=13, etc? All those are typical non-bot behaviours. They chose to ignore all that and still hit me with the permaban hammer.

EDIT>
Gaile's response:

Quote:

I've seen the logs. Virtually nothing you mention is in the logs. You mentioned you were playing multiple accounts. I have to conclude that the chatting in outposts, pming people, answering peoples' questions and helping guildies took place on a different account. Unless you consider a single line of repeated text to be a conversation? I'm pretty sure the team has no doubts about their decision but, again, you're welcome to discuss this with them. For it would be unwise for me to give chapter and verse on the many other factors that lead to the conclusion that there wasn't a human being behind the account during the period in question. -- Gaile 18:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

That single line she mentions is probable "Happy RRday" and variants/typos on it. It seems that Anet ruling is that I can't possibly be human for doing something over and over however boring it may seem to be. Still not Gaile's call. The support team has been doing an excellent job ignoring all my messages and screnshots.

If a screenshot within seconds of the ban isn't proof I was behind the keyboard I don't know what they'll take as proof.

SOF · Oct 21, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

may have already been said but solution:
2 grey teams.
kthxbaii

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

/waves

Hello. I'm not a botter and I'm permabanned. Still with screenshots sent to support I'm permabanned. Waiting for 2 days without response to my permabanned account.

I think the fault lies in the fact they ignore parameters that can be used to identify human players. Fought real fights? Chatted in towns waiting for matches? Replied to pms? Sent PMs? (analyze pm contents and chat contents) Complained about ERR=13, etc? All those are typical non-bot behaviours. They chose to ignore all that and still hit me with the permaban hammer.

According to Gaile, here, your case fit into the majority of the 20 rubrics used to identify bots.

You claim that you chatted in towns, sent pms, etc. However, according to Gaile after she reviewed your chat logs, your characters "repeated" the same line of text over and over again and that's it. That, sir, counts as botting. You got caught. Sorry *shrugs*.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 21, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Lol this thread should just be left to die now really. Gaile pretty much said they won't punish anyone there also aren't any rr days coming up because HB is supposed to be removed in the Halloween build which will come out before the next rr day.

Mangione · Oct 21, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

From a player who wants to have a perfectly clean community (like that's ever going to happen) point of view, sure, it's a plus I suppose. From a business point of view, not so much.

It depends on whom you are catering to.
I know that it is impossible to have a clean community, but I think that kicking out "baddies" is a benefit even from the business point of view.
This is why exploiters, cheaters, griefers are banned.

Me and many others are not going to buy or participate in a game where the community has a fat share of sociopaths (I am not referring to this particular case, it is in general).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You're also assuming that the thousands of players who participate in this event are players who want to exploit things that actually matter. Another thing you're assuming is that all the players who participate know it's an exploit. When something like this is celebrated by the community, many players participating are not aware that they are actually exploiting something in this way.

I talked about thse who went 10 hours RR non-stop, the occasional RRer could not have known, but seriously, getting all that money in so few time should have raised a warning inside their head if they were in good faith.

When I heard about RR, the "too good to be true" sign started to blink in my mind, since I care about NOT being banned I decided to read the forum to see what was happening.

I understand that many people don't have my same cautious mindset (that's why a lot of people gets scammed, because "too good to be true" stuff doesn't raise any warning), but I also think that many people just went along because "a lot of other players is doing it".

(There's a post in this thread or the other one regarding HB about a guy who in the HB outpost said in local that RR was an exploit and the answer was "stfu", "everybody is doing it"... so I won't say that RRers are all innocent)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Regardless of whether or not they truly want to exploit things, satisfied customers = money, and money = business, which is definitely something ANet wants.

The emphasis is on "satisfied".
Having cheaters/botters/etc in the community is not going to satisfy the "honest" playerbase.
On the other hand, if I start botting I should be satisfied by the gold coming at me, Anet shouldn't ban a satisfied customer...
Two different tipes of satisfaction.
I wonder to which one Anet wants to cater now.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

/waves

Hello. I'm not a botter and I'm permabanned. Still with screenshots sent to support I'm permabanned. Waiting for 2 days without response to my permabanned account.

Sorry, I was answering Fred who wrote this

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

Actually, they're already banning RR day botters. I don't know if they'll actually ban real players,

Chico, I don't know about your case, neither we know the ban is RR related, I take your word that you weren't botting, but then I'm curious to know how long have been you doing RR when you got the ban?

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 21, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

I wonder to which one Anet wants to cater now.

The majority, which consists of the rr player base duh.

MMSDome · Oct 21, 2009, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOF

may have already been said but solution:
2 grey teams.
kthxbaii

It is called red resign because the person with red always has a higher rating.

What you suggest would simply change it to HAPPY HIGHER RATING RESIGN DAY.

The idea that A-Net thinks they can ban people for RR is laughably retarded. I personally have never read the EULA (omg and I checked off the accept?!) but in there I doubt they clearly define what ladder manipulation truly is. In order to go through with banning someone for ladder manipulation it needs to be properly defined and that mean including Red Resign. My guess (and I think a good one) is that they do not specifically say you can't RR in the EULA.

If you are banned challenge A-Net, technically they can't ban you for it.

If you are using a click bot or any bot for that matter you should be banned.

Chico · Oct 21, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

According to Gaile, here, your case fit into the majority of the 20 rubrics used to identify bots.

You claim that you chatted in towns, sent pms, etc. However, according to Gaile after she reviewed your chat logs, your characters "repeated" the same line of text over and over again and that's it. That, sir, counts as botting. You got caught. Sorry *shrugs*.

By that logic... go to a town and SPAM "WTS blah blah" over and over... Oh... you're a bot. /permaban
Give me a break. Your logic is wrong on so many levels.
Why not analyze/replay the paths when I walked around in town, from chest, to chest, to zaishen guy, etc. They chose not to log any of that. Any seller in Kamadan and LA is a bot using your definition of a bot.

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

If you are banned challenge A-Net, technically they can't ban you for it.

If you are using a click bot or any bot for that matter you should be banned.

Actually, the match manipulation thing is pretty well defined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rules of Conduct

While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people's game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

Just because it uses the word "ladder" doesn't mean that they don't have the right to reinterpret ladder to mean the whole rating system. It's pretty messed up.

I agree with you that they shouldn't do it, but there's no "legal" imperative for them not to. And I also agree with you that bots should be banned. (Again, sorry Chico).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

By that logic... go to a town and SPAM "WTS blah blah" over and over... Oh... you're a bot. /permaban
Give me a break. Your logic is wrong on so many levels.
Why not analyze/replay the paths when I walked around in town, from chest, to chest, to zaishen guy, etc. They chose not to log any of that. Any seller in Kamadan and LA is a bot using your definition of a bot.

It wasn't my logic, it was Gaile's. I was literally quoting Gaile. She basically said that they're not letting up on you. Sorry, bud. They think you botted.

Chico · Oct 21, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

Chico, I don't know about your case, neither we know the ban is RR related, I take your word that you weren't botting, but then I'm curious to know how long have been you doing RR when you got the ban?

First time. I just heard about RR not even a week ago thanks to this site.

Current status from Support.

Quote:

Response (GM Lxxxxxxxxa) 10/21/2009 12:56 PM
Hello,
Due to the violations committed by this account, it will remain closed. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block.

They do permaban and don't care about any proof. A screenshot of my complete desktop within seconds of the ban isn't proof enough about me being a human being.

Atlantis29 · Oct 21, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

It depends on whom you are catering to.
I know that it is impossible to have a clean community, but I think that kicking out "baddies" is a benefit even from the business point of view.
This is why exploiters, cheaters, griefers are banned.

From a business point of view it would be better (for A-Nets pocket) to let the "baddies" in then ban them at a later date when the start botting again

FREDtheDINOSAUR · Oct 21, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

Current status from Support.

They do permaban and don't care about any proof. A screenshot of my complete desktop within seconds of the ban isn't proof enough about me being a human being.

Gaile asked you twice to send any screenshots you have to support as proof. Have you sent it in?

And I'm confused about what exactly you took screenshots of. Did you take screenshots of yourself playing the game? Or did you take screenshots after your ban?

If the latter, then I'm sorry, but you have no proof.

MMSDome · Oct 21, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

Actually, the match manipulation thing is pretty well defined.

Find where they say that RR is a bannable offense for me, please.

Atlantis29 · Oct 21, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by FREDtheDINOSAUR

Gaile asked you twice to send any screenshots you have to support as proof. Have you sent it in?

And I'm confused about what exactly you took screenshots of. Did you take screenshots of yourself playing the game? Or did you take screenshots after your ban?

If the latter, then I'm sorry, but you have no proof.

if you take a screen shot it pic the desktop in it current condition this PC clock current windows ect so it will show quite abit